Covid

[Master Trollda]

Gracious.  What the heck went down in the thread here? It grew like a weed!  Did the nanobots reach K_Dubb's balls yet?

Sadly, no. Even they are grossed out by the prospect.

[Walks_At_Night]

Mister Clean got the Moderna and look what happened to him.

[Asuka Langley]

About damn time.

[Asuka Langley]

Let the Sharting commence!

[pate]

...What the heck went down in the thread here? It grew like a weed!..

It was glorious, I think the following info-graphic sums it up quite nicely, and might save you a few pages of reading:



Nautical Shore.

[WOTR]

Ok fine, I am happy to be known for my appetite for calculated, infinitesimal risk and encourage the obvious reflections on the size of my balls.  Granted is not WOTR zooming along on his wheelie (with a helmet, thank God!) but it is up there.

Two thoughts on this... First, my wheel is down for 10 days while I wait on a part. It really is sad.

Secondly, you just hit on something. You are talking to somebody who set his old wheel at 20 or 25 and wore a ball cap- and only got a helmet when the risk became quite high (new wheel, higher speed.) I do wonder how much of a persons reaction to vaccination (as well as their reaction to the whole lock down- if they lived in their basement or continued in public) can be easily predicted by their risk avoidance or acceptance in other aspects of their lives.

[WOTR]

I think if you do not know anyone who believes things are going back to normal, it might be good to seek a few out to balance all that dooming purely for sanity's sake.  We do live in different societies:  Canada's vaxx rate is 4% whereas I live in a 50% area.

44% of people in my province have had their first shot (probably 4% have had their second.) I know a few people who tell me "I am getting vaccinated so we can go back to normal." and then when I ask if they expect to ever go back to normal, they say "no." It may be because it is fucking May and we are getting more restrictions. Honestly, they may start lifting a few in June and then reassess in July to see if they should lift more. No gyms, barbers, indoor OR outdoor dining, no indoor visiting in any group size, limit of 4 (or 5- I honestly don't pay enough attention to know what the rule is) when visiting outdoors. Forced quarantine for 3 days in a hotel (at $3000) if you travel by air internationally. Last week a priest thrown in prison, this week a restaurant owner charged.  Who knows? Maybe you are going back to normal- but we are busy ramping up the police state with snitch lines and new restrictions.

As for normal- I am one of the only ones still living my normal life. Would you believe I shook the hand of an employee on his last day before lay-off only a week ago. Never mind going in the out door... I plan on joining two card games this weekend and visiting a girl who I know. I don't think a single one of those actions is "legal" anymore.

you are perfectly right to be skeptical about these ones.  Everybody is guessing here.  But the minute you take your skepticism beyond personal choice and start sharing your links and videos and whatever rumbles are to a like-minded audience you are venturing into advocacy, into politics, and like everything else, your personal health choices have been sucked into the maelstrom.

I am not skeptical of them. I'm sure they probably work. I will put this down once. I don't want an RNA vaccine. They were promising it for cancer treatment for years and I doubted I would get it if offered. Don't get me wrong- if there were a 100% chance I would die of testicular cancer, I could probably do the mental gymnastics to agree to a RNA shot. But not for such a small risk as Covid. I don't even want my tomatoes genetics played around with. Why the hell would I want my RNA screwed with?

So I considered the J&J. And then it comes out it is based on stem cells from an aborted fetus. I get that it is only one kid- and it was from (I think) 1972. While I am pro life, I believe a woman can chose- I would not legislate against it. But I want no part of abortions or the consequences of them.

As for "But the minute you take your skepticism beyond personal choice and start sharing your links and videos and whatever rumbles are to a like-minded audience you are venturing into..." How is that any different than my neighbour berating me this morning after asking if I was getting it and my answering "I don't plan to YET?" I have learned not to just say I have no intention of it ever. Most people are willing to be patient with the hesitant yet brow beat the man who refuses. It was five minutes before I told her I needed to be on my way to work as I was meeting a contractor. If she were not 80 and if I didn't have to see her regular, I may have used other choice words.

I believe in a 100% informed choice. If Tootsie wants to post links that there are nanobots and Bill Gates is depopulating the earth- go for it. I even watched a few. I don't need, or want gatekeepers deciding what I should or should not be allowed to see. I want people to give me their reasons, their links. Both for and against. I want people to advocate for their belief.

[pate]

It's not the Black Death...

Ed Zachary!

[WOTR]

I like how you guys say you are not anti-vaxxers --

Funny you should type that out. As of today, I am a proud anti-vaxxer. I was not yesterday. But they changed the meaning in the Miriam Webster dictionary overnight to now include opposition to LAWS that mandate vaccinations. I told another guy at work today that as of this moment, (and thanks to Miriam Webster) I am now living my life as a proud anti-vaxxer.

I believe when you typed that yesterday, I was not an anti-vaxxer. Today you would be correct. 

[Worthauger]

I am not skeptical of them. I'm sure they probably work.

I am not gonna lie: I am pretty much just phoning it in.

[pate]

I don't know, sir; the English were still squawking at the Swedes for not following best practices or some such shizzle last month, with effects as reported here:

This despite Sweden's covid deaths per capita being far behind those filthy nannying coofers the English, but well ahead of their neighbors.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00885-0/fulltext

As of April 16, 2021, more than 13 700 people have died from COVID-19 in Sweden. The country has one of the highest infection rates in western Europe according to Our World in Data COVID-19 statistics, with 606 new infections per million per day, while its neighbours Denmark, Finland, and Norway reported 115, 62, and 112 new infections per million per day, respectively (April 15, 2021).

Sweden infection rate per capita per day(606/1,000,000) = 0.0606%
Denmark infection rate per capita per day(115/1,000,000) = 0.0115%
Finland infection rate per capita per day(62/1,000,000) = 0.0062%
Norway infection rate per capita per day(112/1,000,000) = 0.0112%

Nautical Shore how "significant" those statistical deviations are between the "control" group and the three "test countries," I am obviously stretching the limits of my ability with "the maths."

A population density map of the area:

(It's an older code, but it checks out... from 2009 but it is probably the same, as far as statistics go I imagine)

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL?end=2019&locations=SE-DK-NO-FI&start=2019&view=bar
From the above link, 2019 population info:

Sweden 10,278,887
Denmark 5,814,422
Finland 5,521,606
Norway 5,347,896

Again, somewhat dated information, but I imagine the population difference from 2019 to 2021 is statistically insignificant.

I am Nautical Shore what to make of all this information when taken with that wonderful Lancet article you so thoughtfully provided.

I would say that a sample size of ~25 million, with a 40% "control" group seems decent sized.  It is interesting to note that there only seem to be two densely populated cities in the sample however... One in Denmark, the other in Sweden.  I also note that Sweden has approximately twice the population of each of its neighbors, most of them concentrated into one small area.

It is certainly "data" but if I were setting up an experiment from which to draw valid conclusions this seems like an awfully klunky set-up.  Surely the recognized established medical community could come up with a better experiment?

Once again, I am Nautical Shore about all of this, but I imagine that this is an epidemiologists wet dream for a case study!  Probably YEARS of billable hours and study to determine WTAF really was going on.

I still don't feel like wearing a pointy wizard/dunce cap about it.  My little corner of the world has seen TWO cases, one my brother and the other and ancient dude up the street.  Neither died, I still do not know (personally) of anyone who has actually died from this Black Plague...

I remain unconvinced, and still celebrate that things are about to "open up."  But as a Proud Missourian, you have to SHOW ME;  I will believe the "we're open" sign when I actually see it, which has not yet happened.  Fingers crossed that some idiot doesn't shit the bed and we have to double the "15 days to stop the spread," horse-hockey from a year or more ago...

[K_Dubb]

Gracious.  What the heck went down in the thread here? It grew like a weed!  Did the nanobots reach K_Dubb's balls yet?

My balls 🔥


My balls 🔥


Hahah

[K_Dubb]

Two thoughts on this... First, my wheel is down for 10 days while I wait on a part. It really is sad.

Secondly, you just hit on something. You are talking to somebody who set his old wheel at 20 or 25 and wore a ball cap- and only got a helmet when the risk became quite high (new wheel, higher speed.) I do wonder how much of a persons reaction to vaccination (as well as their reaction to the whole lock down- if they lived in their basement or continued in public) can be easily predicted by their risk avoidance or acceptance in other aspects of their lives.

That's just the thing, I don't think you can predict it as your wheelie, and your decision to live your life without concessions to covid fear, shows, both things I wouldn't, and didn't, do.  In my observation the strongest predictor of whether someone will get the vaxx is their politics, which shows perfectly how effed up this whole situation is.

It cuts both ways:  you have old folks who probably should get it who see the kind of stuff my Trumpy uncles churn out on facebook, and people like me who probably don't really need to except out of some vague notion of civic duty, but know that nobody will take me to the beach unless I get it.

[WOTR]

but know that nobody will take me to the beach unless I get it.

See? There is the irony of this whole thing. I would take you to the beach... But you would probably refuse to go with me if I were not vaxxed. 

[K_Dubb]

44% of people in my province have had their first shot (probably 4% have had their second.) I know a few people who tell me "I am getting vaccinated so we can go back to normal." and then when I ask if they expect to ever go back to normal, they say "no." It may be because it is fucking May and we are getting more restrictions. Honestly, they may start lifting a few in June and then reassess in July to see if they should lift more. No gyms, barbers, indoor OR outdoor dining, no indoor visiting in any group size, limit of 4 (or 5- I honestly don't pay enough attention to know what the rule is) when visiting outdoors. Forced quarantine for 3 days in a hotel (at $3000) if you travel by air internationally. Last week a priest thrown in prison, this week a restaurant owner charged.  Who knows? Maybe you are going back to normal- but we are busy ramping up the police state with snitch lines and new restrictions.

As for normal- I am one of the only ones still living my normal life. Would you believe I shook the hand of an employee on his last day before lay-off only a week ago. Never mind going in the out door... I plan on joining two card games this weekend and visiting a girl who I know. I don't think a single one of those actions is "legal" anymore.

I am not skeptical of them. I'm sure they probably work. I will put this down once. I don't want an RNA vaccine. They were promising it for cancer treatment for years and I doubted I would get it if offered. Don't get me wrong- if there were a 100% chance I would die of testicular cancer, I could probably do the mental gymnastics to agree to a RNA shot. But not for such a small risk as Covid. I don't even want my tomatoes genetics played around with. Why the hell would I want my RNA screwed with?

So I considered the J&J. And then it comes out it is based on stem cells from an aborted fetus. I get that it is only one kid- and it was from (I think) 1972. While I am pro life, I believe a woman can chose- I would not legislate against it. But I want no part of abortions or the consequences of them.

As for "But the minute you take your skepticism beyond personal choice and start sharing your links and videos and whatever rumbles are to a like-minded audience you are venturing into..." How is that any different than my neighbour berating me this morning after asking if I was getting it and my answering "I don't plan to YET?" I have learned not to just say I have no intention of it ever. Most people are willing to be patient with the hesitant yet brow beat the man who refuses. It was five minutes before I told her I needed to be on my way to work as I was meeting a contractor. If she were not 80 and if I didn't have to see her regular, I may have used other choice words.

I believe in a 100% informed choice. If Tootsie wants to post links that there are nanobots and Bill Gates is depopulating the earth- go for it. I even watched a few. I don't need, or want gatekeepers deciding what I should or should not be allowed to see. I want people to give me their reasons, their links. Both for and against. I want people to advocate for their belief.

I don't know; I checked out the cbc today and they are apparently planning to reopen the border which will be nice; I miss Vancoooover.  I think you will probably follow us pretty soon; once they get all the people in nursing homes the death rate drops pretty fast.  However, returning to normal for me is doing a lot of things I could have been doing all along -- going out, running to the store for stupid things, visiting relatives I haven't seen for a year -- but didn't because of my folks.  I cant really expect people who resisted seeing covid as a problem every step of the way and made no concessions to share that sense of reopening at all.  Or the sense of relief when I sat at the table with my fully-vaxxed folks last time and sighed that we made it.

My complaint is no different from your neighbor, I think you and Tootsie and Sukie should post all the Hamleting anti-vaxxer stuff you want but I will tease you about it because I think it is funny, so different from the way I think.  I did not even care which one I got, just took what they were giving out.  Same as the mask which I don't even think about any more but is the first thing you notice.  I will be glad to take it off, though, Three More Weeks!  If I pay for treating my health in such a cavalier fashion, I will be sure to let you know.