AzzCast Discussion

[K_Dubb]

 BTW thanks for telling me about Hurwitz’s youtube channel, he is hilarious, I had no idea he was such a card, I am laughing here all by myself!  He has me trying to listen to Bruckner again 😩

[Robert Mugabe]

BTW thanks for telling me about Hurwitz’s youtube channel, he is hilarious, I had no idea he was such a card, I am laughing here all by myself!  He has me trying to listen to Bruckner again 😩

You're birds of a feather. Entrenched conservatives. I'm guessing he doesn't review much Alexander Goehr or Peter Maxwell Davies. He really has a bug up his ass about period performance too. He likes to diss Furtwangler too, which really pisses me off. Prick.

If you don't like Bruckner 7 then I wouldn't waste your time listening to anything else. We can't all like the same stuff.

[K_Dubb]

You're birds of a feather. Entrenched conservatives. I'm guessing he doesn't review much Alexander Goehr or Peter Maxwell Davies. He really has a bug up his ass about period performance too. He likes to diss Furtwangler too, which really pisses me off. Prick.

If you don't like Bruckner 7 then I wouldn't waste your time listening to anything else. We can't all like the same stuff.

Bah I don't care about all those old Nazis grinding away on mono.  You just don't like him because he routinely mocks your British critical establishment, which I think is delightful!  He more or less thinks Rattle was propped up because so many of you old queens had a crush on him from his younger days, which I have always suspected, nice to know I am not alone.  I am surprised you have such a problem with him, he is just teasing in that very East Coast way, goes back and forth all the time on stuff, doesn't care.

I remember years ago he ripped an excellent Freiburg Baroque Orchestra recording under Gottfried van der Golz or whatever his name was, it was ugly, unmusical, everything trash, then praised them the next year, play them both, same guy, their style hasn't changed, he was just grumpy that day.  A strongly argued opinion is just more entertaining.

I am trying to start at the beginning with Bruckner this time, last time I tried I began with the end and it sounded like something written by a retarded kid that might be played at a telethon to polite applause.

[Robert Mugabe]

Bah I don't care about all those old Nazis grinding away on mono.  You just don't like him because he routinely mocks your British critical establishment, which I think is delightful!  He more or less thinks Rattle was propped up because so many of you old queens had a crush on him from his younger days, which I have always suspected, nice to know I am not alone.  I am surprised you have such a problem with him, he is just teasing in that very East Coast way, goes back and forth all the time on stuff, doesn't care.

I remember years ago he ripped an excellent Freiburg Baroque Orchestra recording under Gottfried van der Golz or whatever his name was, it was ugly, unmusical, everything trash, then praised them the next year, play them both, same guy, their style hasn't changed, he was just grumpy that day.  A strongly argued opinion is just more entertaining.

I am trying to start at the beginning with Bruckner this time, last time I tried I began with the end and it sounded like something written by a retarded kid that might be played at a telethon to polite applause.

I'm not a Rattle fan and never have been. I've seen enough of him over the years. As an orchestral trainer he's up there in the Szell, Boulez class, but as an interpreter I don't think he brings much to the table. He's a music nerd; there are a lot of them about, though they often get siloed off into the early music ghetto. They're more interested in the technical executive side than the emotional, which makes for unengaging performances.

Rattle was singled out early. He was conducting performances of Mahler 2 in college FFS! I think he was unduly favoured because public life in Britain is filled with people like him: people who have talent but who are hyped beyond their abilities. If they're articulate, amiable, and fit in with the establishment then they often rise to the top. For example, the BBC, sport, business politics, acting. If you're exceptionally gifted but difficult you get held back.

You might be taking me too seriously about Hurwitz. I have no problem at all with someone attacking the consensus. I'd rather hear different opinions than a sounding board.

Maybe try the Bruckner masses, or even the string quartet before plunging into the symphonies. But if you're going to dive in, the Gunter Wand complete set with the Cologne radio orchestra is a good one.

[Innerreach]

Word War One

Sorry, Azz. No one should have to navigate the cryptic ambiguities of a blackout drunk. I think I was referring to your offering up a glimpse into your criminal past. The damn tragedy of it all is that I can't remember.

[K_Dubb]

I'm not a Rattle fan and never have been. I've seen enough of him over the years. As an orchestral trainer he's up there in the Szell, Boulez class, but as an interpreter I don't think he brings much to the table. He's a music nerd; there are a lot of them about, though they often get siloed off into the early music ghetto. They're more interested in the technical executive side than the emotional, which makes for unengaging performances.

Rattle was singled out early. He was conducting performances of Mahler 2 in college FFS! I think he was unduly favoured because public life in Britain is filled with people like him: people who have talent but who are hyped beyond their abilities. If they're articulate, amiable, and fit in with the establishment then they often rise to the top. For example, the BBC, sport, business politics, acting. If you're exceptionally gifted but difficult you get held back.

You might be taking me too seriously about Hurwitz. I have no problem at all with someone attacking the consensus. I'd rather hear different opinions than a sounding board.

Maybe try the Bruckner masses, or even the string quartet before plunging into the symphonies. But if you're going to dive in, the Gunter Wand complete set with the Cologne radio orchestra is a good one.

Yes, and we all know why he was singled out early, you bunch of transparent sodomites!  Are you aware that, running through nearly everything he does, Hurwitz is trolling you guys?  The March of the Mogul Emperors, Elgar's finest composition?  Haha come on!  It's because most of the English-language press is British and we see how you are.  It's a fight that goes back at least a couple generations, I heard about it from my favorite uncle.

He is not serious, wears his opinions lightly, you can disagree and he will just go FEH in that way they have back there that I would say is characteristically Hebrew except the Boston Italians and Bronx Puerto Ricans do it, too.  I like him because he has me picking up a few LP-era things I wouldn't normally consider (Sibelius by Davis in Boston, for example) but you can tell his ears were formed in that era, no real appreciation for the current lean-and-mean fad, which I appreciate however ahistorical it may be.  When they put Elgar's portamenti back they can start claiming authenticity for their decadent wallows but until then it's just a different approach.

[Robert Mugabe]

Yes, and we all know why he was singled out early, you bunch of transparent sodomites!  Are you aware that, running through nearly everything he does, Hurwitz is trolling you guys?  The March of the Mogul Emperors, Elgar's finest composition?  Haha come on!  It's because most of the English-language press is British and we see how you are.  It's a fight that goes back at least a couple generations, I heard about it from my favorite uncle.

He is not serious, wears his opinions lightly, you can disagree and he will just go FEH in that way they have back there that I would say is characteristically Hebrew except the Boston Italians and Bronx Puerto Ricans do it, too.  I like him because he has me picking up a few LP-era things I wouldn't normally consider (Sibelius by Davis in Boston, for example) but you can tell his ears were formed in that era, no real appreciation for the current lean-and-mean fad, which I appreciate however ahistorical it may be.  When they put Elgar's portamenti back they can start claiming authenticity for their decadent wallows but until then it's just a different approach.

I don't think many period-instrument types are interested in Elgar so it's not really something that crops up.

Hurwitz also annoyed Hans Werner Henze. You should check out his video where he talks about pissing him off. He might have changed but he used to get on the rag about people like Norrington who don't use vibrato. He went on a whole tear about it.

Rattle has about six kids and is on his third wife. The idea that he was sponsored by some Bugger's Club who used to go and feel him up in his dressing room before concerts is unlikely.

Davis was always very good in Sibelius. I've had those discs for over 20 years.

[K_Dubb]

I don't think many period-instrument types are interested in Elgar so it's not really something that crops up.

Hurwitz also annoyed Hans Werner Henze. You should check out his video where he talks about pissing him off. He might have changed but he used to get on the rag about people like Norrington who don't use vibrato. He went on a whole tear about it.

Rattle has about six kids and is on his third wife. The idea that he was sponsored by some Bugger's Club who used to go and feel him up in his dressing room before concerts is unlikely.

Davis was always very good in Sibelius. I've had those discs for over 20 years.

Eh check out Venzago's and Dausgaard's chamber-orchestra Bruckner, the modernists are coming for everything, eventually.  That is Hurwitz's argument, though:  the current vogue for leaner sonorities and faster tempi reflects the influence of HIP, even in much later music, and that the older approach preserved in heavier Central European orchestras is more authentic.  I agree with him about HIP (it is just the modern taste for spare textures, cleanness, and simplicity -- by no means confined to music -- applied retrospectively on dubious scholarship, but it is no less rewarding for that) but I don't think he can argue for authenticity in his favored approach without the portamenti, for which there is ample recorded evidence that makes us cringe.  That weightier approach is no more authentic; it is just different.

You can't take anything Hurwitz says seriously, though he may mean that in the moment.  He likes finding possible quotations, accidental or otherwise, but if someone else does it he calls it propter hoc.  He is messing with you all the time.

It doesn't have to be transactional in Rattle's case, just the suspension of critical faculties in the presence of pulchritude of which I have provided you any number of fallibilities of my own as examples, Trumpet Man and Horn Boy coming immediately to mind.  All it takes is a handful of over-fond (in both the usual and archaic senses) critics to form a consensus that launches the career we see.

[K_Dubb]

Incidentally I proposed my (as far as I know) hearing of the theme from Berwald's 3rd (the adagio, repeated in the finale) in Sibelius's 7th (about a minute in, and again in the flute right at the very end before the final chord build-up, it isn't a random note sequence, it meant something) on his Berwald video but I fully expect (if he reads those old ones at all) to get a dismissive reply.  I think it is persuasive, and would be fascinating to Sibelius people, was the first thing I noticed about the Berwald which of course I heard later than the Sibelius, but no one else seems to have heard it.

[AZZERAE]

I'd rather share needles than listen to that bloody show.

[AZZERAE]

Sorry, Azz. No one should have to navigate the cryptic ambiguities of a blackout drunk. I think I was referring to your offering up a glimpse into your criminal past. The damn tragedy of it all is that I can't remember.

Hey, man. I love you like a brother.



No harm, no foul.

[AZZERAE]

Stop trying to put bunny out of business!

[Innerreach]

Hey, man. I love you like a brother.

No harm, no foul.

Thanks for your compassion and understanding, brother.

[Robert Mugabe]

Hey, man. I love you like a brother.

As Cain once said to Abel.

[Robert Mugabe]

Incidentally I proposed my (as far as I know) hearing of the theme from Berwald's 3rd (the adagio, repeated in the finale) in Sibelius's 7th (about a minute in, and again in the flute right at the very end before the final chord build-up, it isn't a random note sequence, it meant something) on his Berwald video but I fully expect (if he reads those old ones at all) to get a dismissive reply.  I think it is persuasive, and would be fascinating to Sibelius people, was the first thing I noticed about the Berwald which of course I heard later than the Sibelius, but no one else seems to have heard it.

Early Sibelius is strongly influenced by Tchaikovsky so I don't suppose late-Sibelius couldn't be influenced too, even if it was that dreary old Swedish hack.